{The List} Resources

[Agathon]

My two cents worth is that the map generator should be smart enough to cluster resources to actually make them bones of contention.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by joncha


Not so pointless, as Lajzar pointed out in terms of shipbuilding. Access to lumber has historically been very important, especially access to the right lumber.

There was a hint of this with the "Cedars of Lebanon" in the first C3C scenario, but I think it could use some more elaboration. I think the city-radius idea could work well for shipbuiding, but I wouldn't want to see it apply to all resources.

jon.

Exactly right. The problem is that island bound nations might find it hard to get going if they don'thave that resource domestically.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
Exactly right. The problem is that island bound nations might find it hard to get going if they don'thave that resource domestically.

That's the idea.

[lajzar]

ok, lets look at a sample list.

Cameleers require desert terrain in the city to build. If you arent fighting in a desert, they have no particular advantage anyway.

Elephants require the ivory spcial resource in your empire, and a jungle tile in the city (for a local habitat). Again, elephants, while good, arent essential.

'Large wooden ships' require a forest tile in the city radius. If you dont have forest, with the right tech, your terraformers can transform plaisn to forest, and even so, the earliest, lightest ships dont require forest (a cludge so you can always leave even the smallest island), and modern ships arent wooden.

Note that requiring local forest is very realistic. This is, after all, why the Easter Island civilisation died out.

[lajzar]

My two cents worth is that the map generator should be smart enough to cluster resources to actually make them bones of contention.

In this case, the resources should be made such that they aren't required to build a unit. One thing that sucks immensely about civ3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpetre, you lose. I'd make it so that each special resource required but absent will increase the unit cost by the original unit cost. That would reflect the smaller deposits that exist.

[Kuciwalker]

One thing that sucks immensely about civ3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpetre, you lose.

One thing that rocks immensely about C3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpeter, you lose.

[lajzar]

One thing that rocks immensely about C3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpeter, you lose.

yes, that is quite realistic. however, I hate losing to the random number generator with no hope of a comeback. The game should not be written such that impossible situations come up more often than not. On about 1 in 3 civ 3 maps that get generated on my machine, I end up without any critical resources at all. Losing to the random number generator (as opposed to the AI) is a mark of bad design in a supposedly intelligent strategy game.

I only expect to lose to a RNG when playing Angband.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by skywalker

One thing that sucks immensely about civ3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpetre, you lose.

One thing that rocks immensely about C3 is that if you have no coal, iron, or saltpeter, you lose.

No, the problem is not with the map generator, but with the AI. The AI will almost never trade me strategic resources even when it has a surfeit.

It also doesn't tend to build roads to strategic resources. There should be just enough strategic resources for every player in the game and they should have additional benefits to encourage trade.

[ThePlagueRat]

That's why there should be large amounts of resources scattered around the map, and as I have mentioned earlier quantified. Then they would only limit your military buildup, instead of denying you one...

[mr Rura]

Originally posted by lajzar
[...]

Note that requiring local forest is very realistic. This is, after all, why the Easter Island civilisation died out.

you are mistaken - that civilization become extinct because of war with one of polynesian tribe which lived on the other part of island, not because of lack of wood...

[lajzar]

And why do you think that polynesian tribe died out?

The current clack is that it was essentiually a civil war. Easter Islanders were polynesians after all...

[Fosse]

Regardless of which resources do or do not get modeled, the important thing is quantifying them so that one resource doensn't represent an infinite supply.

If it is decided that modeling timber, for shipbuilding, is a good idea then so be it.

I'll be happy so long as two things are built into the game: Units that require a resource [/i]to move[/i]. So tanks and battleships, for example, would require one free oil per turn in order to move in a given turn. So if I lose my oil production (or import) then my units get mothballed.

Stockpiles are a must. Any iron I don't use to build units this turn should still be taken from the mines and added to a national stockpile (a % of which could be taken by another civ occupying a city).

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Fosse
Regardless of which resources do or do not get modeled, the important thing is quantifying them so that one resource doensn't represent an infinite supply.

If it is decided that modeling timber, for shipbuilding, is a good idea then so be it.

I'll be happy so long as two things are built into the game: Units that require a resource [/i]to move[/i]. So tanks and battleships, for example, would require one free oil per turn in order to move in a given turn. So if I lose my oil production (or import) then my units get mothballed.

Stockpiles are a must. Any iron I don't use to build units this turn should still be taken from the mines and added to a national stockpile (a % of which could be taken by another civ occupying a city).

Have you played Hearts of Iron? Micromanaging resources can be a real pain.

[Fosse]

No, I haven't. How does it work in Hearts of Iron, and how could Civ 4 do it better?

Civ 3's system is too dumbed down for a group of intelligent gamers. There will always be a trade off between managment levels and features, and only a remarkably boring game will get rid of MM completely. I don't see resource quantities implemented on a broad scale, with perhaps fewer resources than Civ 3 has, as necessarilly creating PITA level MM.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Fosse
No, I haven't. How does it work in Hearts of Iron, and how could Civ 4 do it better?

It's a pain. You have to organize convoys of fuel and other resources to all units and provinces that aren't connected by land. And you have to keep a constant watch on supply.